A recurring theme and the reason you are here: what’s my master bathroom going to cost me to remodel? I’m sitting here thinking with dread about the writing of this post because of the magnitude of the undertaking. It’s simply such a huge question with so many different variables. In a perfect world I’d love for people to be able to think more about the VALUE they are getting added to their house and life, but we live in a physical world, where people get money (through work or however else) and it’s put in a bank account. It becomes the means to purchase what we want. So, the numbers are very often of the utmost importance. Most people think, what is the most I can get for the amount of money that I have.
The biggest problem with many of the calls I get is that people vastly underestimate what things cost in 2019. I’m starting to get used to the arbitrary numbers and time frames people come up with, but it’s taken some time. A lot of this is coming from the DIY television shows, where within a half hour they’ll have the before and after and say it all cost $3,000! Another scenario is that people will go on Houzz or Pinterest and see this intricate tile work and say, “I want that!” The reality is that the work you’re seeing on those sites is someone’s top tier work, with massively expensive material, and all we see is the finished product without the context as to what it took to get that space to those breath taking finished photos.
I’ll say it plainly, all tile work doesn’t cost one base price. Square foot price for a bathroom? I don’t even think in those terms! The example I like is when you’re buying a car. You can buy the low end one with no features or you can buy the high end one with all the bells and whistles. Buying a car and tile work are similar in that fact that they are both INHERENTLY EXPENSIVE. If you want tile built to last and done correctly, it’s going to cost you. “Correctly” is not a subjective term, by the way. “Correctly” means built according to ANSI (American National Standards Institute) and TCNA (Tile Council of North America) standards. Tile is a permanent finish, and any great tile guy is going to come at it with the ‘forever’ mindset.
Why is there so much variation in the cost of remodeling with tile?
1. The cost of the material. Where are you buying your tile from? Are you buying it from a whole sale shop like Floor and Décor? At a store like that you’re dealing with a lot of seconds. Low end tile coming from far away places like Turkey that don’t have the same quality standards and haven’t gone through the same rigorous quality control. A tile from Italy or Germany where the standard of living is higher will usually be better than a tile from China. I could get into the politics of all of this but instinctively, I think you can square the circle. Our projects are more expensive because we always recommend that our customers go to a real tile supplier, where if there is a problem with the tile, there is some form of accountability.
On the subject of accountability, a quick story. We were working for a friend who was setting large format plank tile throughout an entire house. We finished setting the tile, started grouting, and as we were grouting the finish of the porcelain tile would scratch, just by grout being cleaned up with a sponge. The sand in the grout was scratching the finish off the tile. We brought this up to Floor and Décor and they couldn’t even tell us who the tile was supplied from. They gave the homeowner the cost of the tile back, but that was it. He was caught with the labor cost and a floor that scratched from looking at it. Imagine the headache.
We regularly use this story. We’ve been using Tile House in Marietta for years now, where you walk in and Cindy comes out and helps you with design. A truly knowledgeable person who has been at this for a long time, a careerist in fact, and has a grasp on all aspects of tile work. Yes, the tile is traditionally not in stock, but it’s within 3-5 days.
You don’t get the same same level of service and know how at Floor and Décor. It’s rare to run in to someone that knows anything about tile, Oh sure, they’ll act like they do, but really? Almost every time I walk in the place, there are new people working at the front desk. I am a man of routine, of habits and the difference between great tile work and bad tile work is the store and the builder having a system in place to attain high end finishes. I’ve heard many builders say they don’t even let their customers shop at Floor and Decor. We are a bit more flexible than that, but with that flexibility comes hassle for us! Hassle means we have to get paid more for our services. Something to think about!
Another thing that bugs me is that they take returns on tile, which is good and bad. Yes, you can return the tile you bought if you have extra, but it just goes back into the pile and the next person gets tile that is not of the same dye lot! So, it may look completely different when it’s put up.
Floor and Décor is good for SOME THINGS, like setting materials, but they are extremely hit or miss. The lines, the staffing. It’s a good place for a homeowner that wants to go in and put hands on material, see it, touch it….It’s a nightmare for a legitimate installer that’s running on tight margins. For someone who knows what they’re doing and knows what they’re looking at, It’s not the place to be. Something to think about, cheap tile will cost more to have someone make it look good. There will be more skill involved to make it work! So, where are the cost savings, really?
Tile cost, anywhere from $2 a square foot to $50 a sqft. The average master bath will have 100sqft inside the shower and 100 sqft outside the shower. The shower floor mosaic tile is usually between $10-$30 a square foot, not to mention the granite if you want hard surface tops, the edging and the prep materials.
Let’s talk about the prep materials, this is where it gets interesting! There are many ways to prep a bathroom. ‘Prep’ being short for the preparation of the surfaces to make it ready for tile. Some people use modern systems like Wedi or Schluter….Some people go old school and will ‘mud’ the walls, some people will build a ‘water in water out’ shower system, some will use cement board and a topical water proofing, what kind of thin set will the builder use? The bottom line is that if you are the average consumer…This is the part you probably know nothing about, but is the most important part of the whole job. This is where you lose your shirt if you don’t dot your I’s and cross your t’s.
This is where the difference of thousands between each bid will manifest itself. How is the builder waterproofing? Realize that there are many ways to prep a bathroom, so it’s important to determine what you’re paying for as far that goes. Your shower on average will see 1100 inches of water per person per year. Your roof sees 30….the waterproofing is very important. You make your choice on how you want your stuff built, I have lots of information on this site about prep and there’s plenty more on YouTube if you’re interested. This is the part of the build where a contractor will ‘save you money’ by cutting corners and hurting you in the long run!
2. Labor.
What kind of builder are you hiring? The cost of a job will vary based upon how much the skilled tradesmen is going to cost you. I’m always wary when I hear a job will be a “competitive bidding scenario” because that usually means that the person who’s willing to lose the most money will get the job. The person who doesn’t have a grip on their numbers, will win. It can be a race to the bottom in this business. Who you hire and the differences between him and the other guy, is mostly based on common sense. If you value craftsmanship, you’ll pay more. If you want to trust and know the people that are working in your house, you’ll pay more. If you hire a company that has a show room, for example, you’ll pay more. A lot of this is basic business. Companies with high overhead and expenses have to charge more than a guy with a truck that has no workman’s comp, insurance and doesn’t pay taxes. I advise you to put yourself in the builders shoes when you’re hiring. Would you do the work for the amount of money they’re asking to be paid? What do you make to go to work every day? In turn, what does your employer need to bill out? When we do a master bathroom, we set up in our client’s house for two weeks on average. Two guys, two weeks….countless hours in traffic….We don’t do multiple jobs, or work on the side….we have families too. So that is a good baseline question. Would I do this amount of work, for the money this builder is asking for? If it’s too good to be true, it probably is. As the old saying goes, Good work aint cheap…Cheap work aint good!
Not to get too far into politics, but from what I see here in Georgia, many builders use the most marginalized people in society to work construction. We all watch the news. I’ll leave it at that. This isn’t your grandpa’s construction business! Ask the builder, who will be working in my house? If you don’t care, that’s fine, but a bathroom remodel is not a risk free endeavor, and if you can’t afford to do it twice, use caution! If you’re going to go with the lower price, ask yourself if you think that guy will be in business in six years if you need him…80% of construction businesses go out of business in the first five years.
In our bids, we build into our price the amount of time we have to spend on fixing others peoples mediocre work that was done when the house was originally built. When we rip something apart, we own it and we’re also responsible for getting it back to a place where that structure can accept high end building material. It’s not easy. A framing crew in GA will frame an entire house in two days, that’s quite a few corners cut that trickle down to us during the remodel. How much fixing is the other bid going to do, in order to get your house structurally sound? Every. single. job we do has a major amount of framing that has to be fixed, floors that have to be flatted and re enforced, plumbing that has to be properly done. That all adds time, which in turn is money.
Do you know why not many people build according to ANSI (American National Standards Institute) and TCNA (Tile Council of North America) Standards? It’s because it takes more time and skill, therefore it costs more money!
I have a popular blog post about what to watch out for when hiring a re modeler. Check it out here. My favorite is “The cult of personality hire” I think the term is an original creation of mine based on what I’ve seen.
3. What are you wanting done?
I have another blog post called “How to save money on your next bathroom remodel.” The post lays out some pretty simple steps to save some money. If you’re moving walls, plumbing, electric. More money. Intricate tile patterns. More money….Are you using a designer or a “design build firm” more money. Are you getting a soap niche, a corner bench, a decorative inset band? That’ll all drive up the cost as well. Sometimes, if you are on a fixed budget and you’re not willing to budge, you will have to change the scope! I know, no one wants to hear that. We want what we want, when we want it! If you’re working with a good builder, they are flexible. This is ultimately a collaboration, so be someone that’s willing to collaborate if it’s not possible to do what you want done with your budgeted funds.
Generally, that describes where the variations in pricing between builders comes from. It requires you to use some common sense and think like the business person you’re wanting to hire. The old saying goes ‘you get what you pay for.’ I like to add to that by saying, TRUST BUT VERIFY! The best way to verify is by looking online to see if the company you’re looking to use does content marketing. The photos and videos the company has made of them working will tell you all you need to know.
One of my favorite things to tell a potential client who has the arbitrary number of $10k that they want to spend is, start adding up the numbers. When the average free standing tub is $2000 dollars, plus the fixture at another $800 plus the cost of the plumber to put it in, we’re at $4000 roughly already. Just start adding up the parts in your head. I like to send old bids to potential customers so they can see for themselves how fast it all adds up.
When I get the arbitrary number of $5k for a stand up shower and the prep material is at $1k, the frame less glass door that everyone wants to have is at $1-3k, the tile is at roughly $1k, add the fixtures and the licensed plumber, there’s not a ton left over…$2k for taxes, miscellaneous supplies, wear and tear on tools, one week of labor costs for two people, countless other problems to solve, overhead, and yes, PROFIT. People should not have a business with out profit. “Free” and cheap are trigger words for me. We’ll always end up paying, one way or another.
Our average stand up shower costs $12-20k. Most of your money will be inside your shower, Add another $2-4k for the average master bathroom floor.
We are a company that will do partial bathrooms. A lot of our bathrooms are showers and floors, because the showers are built so atrociously bad and they are failing (leaking) so, they absolutely have to be done. The showers we tear out are the famous 5 year specials! Our average cost for a bathroom without new counter tops, paint, toilets, cabinets, electric, minimal plumbing, come in around $15-25k.. Sometimes, the customer will paint the area themselves and do their own drywall if necessary.
A full gut, new everything, usually comes in anywhere from $30-50k.
Which, in my opinion is a steal compared to a “design build” firm that will easily want $50k. Yes, you won’t get the CAD drawings with us, but you’ll get far better craftsmanship because we don’t necessarily focus on the bells and whistles of the sale, we focus on building you something that will last forever and function as it should.
I also want to talk a little bit about designers. When you hire designers, they’re famous for going after the aesthetic. They generally focus on the looks, while ignoring the functionality. We worry about, what will the maintenance of this shower/bathroom be like? Will it be easy to clean? What will this tile look like in 20 years? I see many ‘designer’ showers that will mix porcelain tile, warped…strange patterns that don’t meet TCNA standards (brick set 12”x24”s for example) and a natural stone shower floor that gets pitted and nasty in one year! They’ll say…”Of course we can do 1/16” grout joints”….without ever taking into account what the tile manufacturer calls for! They’re generally famous for making promises that can’t be kept by the installer. The perfect mix is a designer that thinks like an installer, who also thinks about what it’ll be like to USE the shower everyday! Yeah, you’ll pay extra for that, when using a design/build construction company.
If you’ve found someone, or if you’re doing a full gut yourself, think about how many corners will have to be cut to get it in at $10k. Maybe you don’t cut any corners, think about how much effort, time and hassle YOU (yourself) will have to put into your project. Do you really know enough about the in’s and out’s of building to under take the management of your own bathroom remodel. I can give you phone numbers of multiple homeowners who took it on themselves thinking they were well equipped, only to find out they didn’t know half of what they needed to and simply didn’t have the experience necessary to manage a high end bathroom remodel. Those are the people who are thankful they found Jason to help them along! When you GC your bathroom yourself, you won’t be getting the level of detail that you see on this site. Maybe you “don’t need all that.” I hear that frequently, but I advise you to think about the RETURN ON INVESTMENT. If you have the ability to put the $30k into a bathroom and you can easily sell your house for good money when you inevitably move, you become the winner. Most of the tile work I see out there WILL NOT sell a house. What does any real estate person say, The money is in the kitchens and bathrooms.
People suffer “sticker shock” at the initial price of a bathroom and they’ll usually end up spending more than their original budget anyway. It’s a lot to take in, but hopefully this blog post warms you up to the reality of remodeling. I spoke earlier about a bathroom remodel not being a ‘risk free’ endeavor. You may be surprised to know that 1/3rd of our customers this year were folks who had another company start (or finish) their project and had to fire them and have our company come in to clean up the mess. This happens more than people believe. I always ask, how much did you pay the other guy, and without fail it’s a number that leaves Jason and I wondering, “what did you expect?”
It’s not a scare tactic when I warn people on this site, Remodeling is a SKILLED TRADE. For whatever reason, mostly involving politics and sociology in my opinion, the trades are dying, and that’s resulting in higher prices for great work. What we’re also seeing out there, is an overall decline in quality and that is becoming the new normal. All work is not the same. My perfect scenario would be to be able to bring a potential client through one of my bathrooms, then through the competitions’. That’s why I do a lot of video!
In a nutshell: Our prices: January - December 2018 (Atlanta, GA)
$10-20k for a standup shower.
Add $2-4k for a the outside floor .These are based on the average size of a middle class home in the Atlanta area.
Average partial bathroom remodel this year has been $12-25k.
Add $3-5k for a curbless shower, all to eliminate that 4” curb! The height for the slope to the drain has to come from somewhere! Learn more here.
Add a heated floor $1.5-2.5k - the expense comes in running an independent electrical line to your bathroom if necessary.
Average full bath gutted: $30-50k.
Average jack and jill or side bathroom is $12k-15k
Can be way more or way less, but again these are general numbers.
Fight the urge to search for a deal... From my experience, the people looking for a deal are the ones who take a loss.
My main hope with this post is to inform people in the “price discovery” phase. I empathize with people who are in this phase and I’m hopeful that this post is helpful and will save you a chunk of time.
Good luck!